Cardinal Arthur Roche has spoken out again, and not exactly to build bridges. In an exclusive interview granted to AdVaticanum, signed by Thomas Edwards and published on October 13, the prefect of the Dicastery for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments reviews his five years at the head of the dicastery. He speaks about Traditionis custodes, the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X, and the controversy over the chanting of the Qur’an at a university Mass in Belgium. The tone is the same as always: the liturgical reform is not up for discussion, and whoever resists it places themselves outside the center of the Church.
The answers come at a time when the cardinal himself, according to the outlet, has already submitted his resignation due to age. The distance between his diagnosis and certain known facts is striking. Roche claims that the bishops were calling for changes to Summorum Pontificum and attributes the contrary impression to the “noise” of traditionalist groups. However, the report published in 2025 by journalist Diane Montagna indicated that the majority of the bishops consulted advised against modifying Benedict XVI’s motu proprio.
His reading of Summorum Pontificum as an instrument designed for the FSSPX leaves out the letter with which Benedict XVI accompanied it in 2007. In it, the Pope spoke of an internal reconciliation in the Church and recalled that what was sacred for previous generations remains sacred today. His statement about the invalidity of the Fraternity’s sacraments is also not easily reconciled with the faculties Francis granted to its priests between 2015 and 2017.
Toward legal liquidation with Traditionis custodes
Taken together, the prefect’s answers present Traditionis custodes as a framework of restriction with no turning back, not as a transitional stage. The 2021 motu proprio already established in its first article that the liturgical books promulgated by Paul VI and John Paul II are the only expression of the lex orandi of the Roman rite. The Responsa ad dubia of December that same year, signed by Roche himself, later hardened its application. If one adds to this a Pope who, according to the cardinal, will not review the norm, and the recommendation not to attend the ancient Mass exclusively, what emerges from his words is a horizon of progressive limitation that leaves the traditional rite without a stable place in the law of the Church.
Asked whether Leo XIV will offer his own orientation, especially in light of the appeal of the 1962 Mass among many young people, Roche rules it out outright:
«He is not going to change Traditionis custodes. He is not going to go back to Summorum Pontificum».
The cardinal draws on recent words of Leo XIV to priests and consecrated persons at Notre-Dame. He interprets them as a call to set aside personal preferences and return to what the Church asks. He also cites the address with which the Pontiff concluded his cycle of catecheses on Sacrosanctum Concilium a few weeks ago. The underlying reason, he explains, is that the Church gathers “as a family, as a group, not simply as individuals.”
«If one resists, one moves away from the center of Catholicism»
The interviewer recalls that Francis justified Traditionis custodes with a questionnaire sent to the bishops of the world. He also raises Montagna’s report, according to which the majority of responses advised against touching Summorum Pontificum. Roche does not engage with that data and responds with a personal conviction:
«I have no doubt, and I hear it again and again from the bishops».
The cardinal maintains that traditionalist groups are far noisier than the rest of the Church and therefore manage to secure more eye-catching headlines. According to his version, Summorum Pontificum was created to facilitate the return of the FSSPX, which did not happen. Instead, he says, it served in some regions to promote the ancient liturgy over the renewed one, which in his view contradicted the spirit of the document.
From there he moves to the warning that gives the interview its title. For Roche, the Pope wanted, for the sake of unity, to call the Church back around the Council, which he defines as the Church’s highest legislative instance:
«If one rejects it, if one resists it, one moves away from the center of Catholicism».
«What is your problem? What more do you want?»
When asked whether he would advise the faithful of the Vetus Ordo to attend the new Mass, Roche qualifies: «You should not attend that Mass exclusively, I believe». He recounts that when groups of a traditionalist mindset tell him the Pope has not been kind to them, he reminds them that they are allowed to celebrate with the ancient rite, and asks them:
«What is your problem? What more do you want?»
According to the cardinal, in general they do not know how to answer. On traditionalist blogs, however, he believes he sees the aspiration for a Church that does not adhere to Vatican II. He asks every Catholic, whatever their sensibility, to examine their conscience in light of the Church’s teaching and not their own tastes. He insists that loving Latin is fine: «We are of the Latin rite». He also invokes Mystici Corporis and Mediator Dei, by Pius XII, as pillars of Sacrosanctum Concilium, and maintains that nothing in them changed in the conciliar constitution.
The interviewer insists that in the traditional Mass a correct understanding of the Eucharist and frequent confession are almost taken for granted, and that the Church should harness that youthful energy. Roche replies by asking whether that does not also happen at the Sunday Mass of the new rite. Nor does he acknowledge greater commitment:
«Is the level of faith different? I did not see it. As a pastor, I have never seen it».
Sacrosanctum Concilium and Latin
He is reminded that the conciliar constitution calls for preserving Latin and forbids priests from changing the liturgy on their own. To those who claim that the 1969 missal does not faithfully reflect the text, Roche speaks of a «misinterpretation». He assures that in his 51 years as a priest and 25 as a bishop he has never seen a diocese where those elements were not present. He cites as an example Bishop Gordon Wheeler of Leeds, who after the Council arranged for the new Mass to be celebrated in Latin every Sunday in some place in each deanery.
«Fifteen minutes, from amice to amice»
The journalist compares Roche’s generation, which saw in the Council the future of the Church, with the young people who today see the need to return to the Vetus Ordo. The cardinal accepts the parallel and evokes his childhood as an altar server. The priest he assisted, Father Quinton, warned him:
«Remember, 15 minutes, from amice to amice».
With that anecdote he illustrates the speed with which the ancient Mass was celebrated. He also recalls that a sung Mass, or a solemn Mass with deacon and subdeacon, was rare in most English parishes. He denies that the reform is defective: the structure, he affirms, is the same, enriched with sources that were not available in the 1570s.
To reinforce his argument he turns to Saint Paul and the liturgical abuses in Corinth. The Apostle handed on what he had received from the Lord, and that same thing, he says, corresponds to the Church at its highest level. Unity is part of the eucharistic gift and, in his opinion, «is not something that can be chosen at convenience». He recalls that in an interview with The Tablet he was asked whether one must go to Mass every Sunday to be Catholic, and he answered yes. Catholicism, he explains, is a commitment, not something conceptual. Living it only when convenient, he concludes, «is not Catholicism. That is Protestantism».
The FSSPX: «they have no jurisdiction»
Regarding a possible return of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X, Roche responds that there is always a way back and that conversion is a daily task, also for him. When asked about the validity of their confessions and marriages, he is categorical:
«Yes. Because they have no jurisdiction, they have no authority».
The prefect describes Francis’s gesture during the Year of Mercy as generous. He reproaches the Fraternity for now claiming that the Pope had no authority to do so and that their sacraments were already valid. «Either you believe in the Church or you do not», he concludes. He adds that he himself goes to confession every two weeks in Saint Peter’s, standing in line, to show that he too is a sinner, and always before a priest with the power to absolve.
To understand the scope of this answer, several dates are worth recalling. In 2015 Francis granted the priests of the Fraternity the faculty to absolve during the Jubilee, extended it without a time limit in Misericordia et misera (2016), and in 2017 authorized ordinaries to delegate for assistance at their marriages. The interview does not clarify whether the cardinal is referring to the period prior to those concessions.
The Qur’an at a Belgian Mass
AdVaticanum asks him about the opening Mass of the academic year at a Belgian Catholic university where a passage from the Qur’an was sung and the homily was given by a layperson. According to the university, the decision was made in consultation with the local bishops. Roche responds without mincing words: «Completely wrong». He attributes it to a misunderstanding of the Eucharist and warns of the risk of turning the liturgy into whatever each person wants it to be. He describes it as social adaptation and as «a fashion without theological foundation».
Ballester, his memories, and the future
The interview opens with Pedro Ballester, the young numerary of Opus Dei whose cause for beatification is open and whose family Roche is friends with. The cardinal remembers him brimming with life and dedication to others, with an inquisitive mind and a vocation to suffer united to the cross that he considers an exceptional grace in someone so young.
Among his best memories as prefect he mentions the privilege of working with two Popes in the application of the conciliar reform. He also cites the meetings with bishops from around the world, which have shown him a Church that today flourishes with difficulty even where there is no open persecution, but there are prejudices against Catholicism.
Regarding his future after submitting his resignation, he recalls that he remains a member of several dicasteries and that the work is not finished. «A vocation is not a job. It is a way of life», he affirms. As long as God gives him breath, he wants to continue simply being a priest.