In an exclusive interview granted to journalist Diane Montagna, Mons. Athanasius Schneider, auxiliary bishop of Astana (Kazakhstan), issued a harsh warning against the recent international LGBTQ+ pilgrimage, approved by the Vatican as part of the 2025 Jubilee. Schneider described the event as a “desecration of the Holy Door” and an “outrage to God,” while accusing the clergy who promote the homosexual agenda of being “spiritual criminals” and “soul murderers.”
An event approved by the Vatican
The event, included in the official calendar of the 2025 Jubilee of the Vatican, was organized by associations such as Tenda di Gionata (Italy), the Global Network of Rainbow Catholics, and Outreach, led in the United States by the Jesuit Father James Martin. During the pilgrimage, more than a thousand participants attended a vigil where a lesbian couple publicly shared their “love story.” Viral photographs showed two men holding hands in St. Peter’s Basilica, one with a backpack bearing the phrase “F*** the Rules,” and another young man with a rainbow T-shirt posing for selfies with Bernini’s Baldacchino in the background. Finally, the Mass was presided over by Mons. Francesco Savino, vice-president of the Italian Episcopal Conference, who encouraged those present to patiently await the ecclesial recognition of homosexual unions.
Mons. Schneider: «A silent cry of horror and indignation»
Mons. Schneider told Montagna that his first reaction was a “silent cry of horror and indignation,” assuring that what happened in St. Peter’s Basilica evokes the words of Christ about the “abomination of desolation in the holy place” (Mt 24:15). He emphasized that entering through the Holy Door without repentance, promoting ideologies contrary to the sixth commandment, constitutes a mockery of God and a profanation of the Jubilee.
The prelate directly accused the Vatican authorities of collaborating in the public contempt for Catholic morality: “God’s commandments were allowed to be mocked.” But he pointed out that, from a theological point of view, the veneration of Pachamama in 2019 was even more serious, although both events— he said—require a public act of reparation by the Pope.
Mons. Schneider implored Pope Leo XIV to repeat the gesture of St. John Paul II, who in the Jubilee year 2000 publicly denounced the World Pride of Rome. Schneider asked the Pope for acts of reparation, stating that true humility consists in recognizing errors and repairing the damage.
“The Pope is not the vicar of Francis, but of Jesus Christ. God will hold him accountable for the defense of the truth,” he warned.
We leave below the full interview and translation:
Diane Montagna: A viral photo of two homosexual men holding hands in St. Peter’s Basilica, one with a backpack that read “F*** the Rules,” and another image of a young man with a “rainbow” T-shirt making a selfie with his hand in a claw shape with Bernini’s Baldacchino in the background, have gone around the world since September 6. The group of pilgrims also entered the Basilica carrying a “rainbow cross” high; it is unknown how such an object passed security. The pilgrimage was approved by the Vatican, as part of the Jubilee Year convened by Pope Francis. Excellency, what was your first reaction upon seeing these photos?
Mons. Athanasius Schneider: My reaction was a silent cry of horror, indignation, and pain. All true believers in the Church—both laity and clergy—who still uphold the validity of God’s commandments and take them seriously should experience this provocation as a brazen slap in the face. I believe that many faithful Catholics and members of the clergy remain, in a certain sense, stunned by such a blow and need time to recover. An unprecedented act has taken place in St. Peter’s Basilica, which can well be described, in the words of Our Lord, as an “abomination of desolation in the holy place” (cf. Mt 24:15).
Diane Montagna: What is the meaning of the Holy Door and how does it influence the reality of what happened on September 6?
Mons. Schneider: One of the essential meanings of the Jubilee Year and the Holy Door consists in “leading man to conversion and penance,” as St. John Paul II explained in the bull convening the Holy Year 2000. Another characteristic sign is the indulgence, which constitutes one of the essential elements of the Jubilee. Thus, the Jubilee Year is a powerful means of God’s grace to help the faithful progress in holiness through a fruitful reception of the sacrament of penance and the obtaining of the indulgence, which implies a conscious detachment from all grave sin and moral disorder. For “the free and conscious surrender to grave sin… separates the believer from the life of grace with God and, therefore, excludes him from the holiness to which he is called” (John Paul II, Incarnationis Mysterium, 9).
The stated objective of the LGBTQ+ organizations that called their adherents and activists to this Jubilee pilgrimage was for the Church to recognize and legitimize so-called homosexual rights, including homosexual relations and other forms of extramarital sexual conduct.
There were no signs of repentance or renunciation of objectively grave sins or the homosexual lifestyle on the part of the organizers and participants in this pilgrimage. Crossing the Holy Door and participating in the Jubilee without repentance, promoting an ideology that openly rejects God’s sixth commandment, constitutes a kind of profanation of the Holy Door and a mockery of God and the gift of the indulgence.
Diane Montagna: The groups involved in the event (Tenda di Gionata, the Global Network of Rainbow Catholics, and Outreach, led by Fr. James Martin, SJ) reject the idea of conversion from the LGBTQ+ lifestyle and instead believe that the time has come for the Church to recognize it. What does it say about the current state of the Vatican that this event was allowed?
Mons. Schneider: In this, the authorities responsible for the Holy See collaborated de facto in undermining and calling into question the validity of God’s sixth commandment, particularly its explicit condemnation of homosexual activity. They stood by with folded arms and allowed God to be mocked and His commandments to be despised with arrogance.
Diane Montagna: In your opinion, was this event worse than the Pachamama scandal?
Mons. Schneider: From a theological and objective point of view, the veneration of Pachamama in St. Peter’s Basilica was worse than the LGBTQ+ pilgrimage, for it constituted a direct transgression of the first commandment of the Decalogue and, therefore, was more impious even than an abominable act that contradicts or ridicules the sixth commandment. The promotion of sodomy and other sexual immoralities amounts to an indirect form of idolatry, whereas the idol Pachamama was offered explicit acts of religious veneration: incense, lights, candles, and prostrations. Both events must be publicly repaired by the Pope himself. This is urgently necessary, before it is too late, because God cannot be mocked (cf. Gal 6:7).
Diane Montagna: Before the pilgrimage through the Holy Door, a Mass was celebrated presided over by Mons. Francesco Savino, vice-president of the Italian Episcopal Conference, in the Church of the Gesù in Rome, run by the Jesuits. Everyone could receive Communion. Is not assent to the entire doctrine and morality of the Church a prerequisite for receiving the Lord in the Eucharist?
Mons. Schneider: Yes, certainly it is a requirement, as God commands in Sacred Scripture through the teaching of St. Paul: “Whoever eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks his own condemnation. That is why there are many sick and weak among you, and many have died” (1 Cor 11:29-30). The Church has maintained this immutable and universal precept for two thousand years, and still preserves it in its official teaching. The Catechism clearly states: “Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion” (n. 1415). Furthermore, it notes that Sacred Scripture “presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, [and] tradition has always declared that ‘homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.’ They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved” (n. 2357).
By allowing these public Masses for LGBTQ+ organizations in Rome and granting them passage through St. Peter’s Holy Door, the authorities of the Holy See showed the whole world a flagrant contradiction between the official teaching of the Church and its practice. In this way, these high authorities de facto repudiated the doctrine they are obliged to safeguard. In light of these manifest and evident facts for all, one must ask: can the world continue to take the official teaching of the Church seriously?
Diane Montagna: The organization “Courage International” is an apostolate that serves men and women with same-sex attraction, helping them to live a life of holiness in accordance with the fullness of the Catholic faith. If Saturday’s pilgrimage had been sponsored by Courage, there would have been no scandal. What is your message for the people who participated in the event, who are being deceived by Fr. James Martin and the LGBTQ+ movement?
Mons. Schneider: My message to them is first and foremost one of compassion. Because when a person consciously rejects God’s explicit commandment that prohibits all sexual activity outside a valid marriage, they place themselves in the greatest danger: losing eternal life and being eternally condemned to hell. We must show compassion toward those who seek to legitimize homosexual activity and persist in it without repentance and even with pride. True love for these people consists in calling them, gently but persistently, to genuine conversion to God’s revealed will.
These people are deceived by the evil spirit, by Satan, the father of lies, and deep down are unhappy, although they have suppressed the voice of their conscience. We must be filled with great zeal to save these souls, to free them from poisonous deceptions. The priests who confirm them in their homosexual activity or homosexual lifestyle are spiritual criminals, soul murderers, and God will hold them strictly accountable, according to His word: “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel. When you hear a word from my mouth, you shall warn them for me. If I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you shall surely die,’ and you do not speak to warn the wicked to turn from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand” (Ez 33:7-8).
Diane Montagna: This event was planned before the election of Leo XIV. Some have argued that it would have been worse if Pope Francis were still alive. They point out that Leo XIV did not receive the LGBT+ delegation at his Jubilee general audience in St. Peter’s Square on Saturday, nor did he send them a message.
Mons. Schneider: These arguments do not convince. For the Pope to have received a pro-LGBTQ+ delegation would have been truly unprecedented and the height of scandal. The fact that Leo XIV did not cause such a scandal does not in any way justify his de facto consent to this event. One cannot reasonably assume naivety on his part, because it was entirely foreseeable that a pro-LGBTQ+ organization, or at least some of its members, would use the Holy Door and St. Peter’s Basilica as a platform to promote an ideology that openly despises and rejects God’s explicit will expressed in His holy commandment.
Diane Montagna: Fr. James Martin posted photos of an audience he had with Pope Leo several days before the event. Did popes before Francis receive people of this type? What do you think of these and other recent audiences, such as that of the controversial Dominican Sr. Lucía Caram, who allegedly supports “gay marriage”?
Mons. Schneider: Before the pontificate of Francis, the successors of Peter neither officially received nor photographed themselves with those who, by word or deed, openly rejected the doctrinal and moral teaching of the Church. With these official meetings and photographs, Leo XIV sent de facto to the world a message that he does not distance himself from their heterodox and scandalous teachings and conduct, especially since the Holy See offered no clarifications afterward nor corrected Fr. James Martin’s triumphalist messages disseminated on social media. There is a common saying: “Qui tacet consentire videtur” —“He who is silent is taken to consent.”
Diane Montagna: The Church has not only preached the truth but has also actively combated error. As Islam grows in the West and Europe de-Christianizes, what is at stake if the Catholic Church cedes its moral authority to these lobbies and movements?
Mons. Schneider: St. Peter and his successors, the Roman Pontiffs, along with the Holy See, and thus the Catholic Church as such, received from Christ Himself the highest moral authority in this world. That authority consists in teaching the whole world—people of all nations and religions—God’s commandments, that is, to observe all that Christ has commanded (cf. Mt 28:20).
To the extent that the Church’s magisterium—in the Holy See and in the episcopate—weakens, becomes ambiguous, confused, or even contradictory, the influence of anti-truth, in all its ideological and religious forms, will inevitably increase.
The strength of Islam may become increasingly attractive to some, but Islam can neither nor will ever impart to the human soul the grace necessary to be inwardly transformed into a new man through the grace of Christ. I live in a country with a Muslim majority and strong Orthodox presence; when people see these events, both religious leaders and ordinary people ask what is happening to the Pope and the Holy See.
By allowing such scandals, the authorities of the Holy See are silencing the truth of Christ, the voice of Christ. Therefore, it is imperative in our time that the words of the Pope and the Holy See on the Church’s teaching faithfully correspond to their actions. For there is no higher moral authority in this world than that of Jesus Christ, who entrusted His authority to the Magisterium of the Pope and the episcopate. What a tremendous responsibility! And what an immense accountability in the judgment of Christ!
Diane Montagna: I wrote to Vatican spokesman Matteo Bruni asking if the Vatican would issue a statement acknowledging that this should not have been allowed and an apology for the scandal, but there was no response. What does this silence reveal?
Mons. Schneider: The Holy See finds itself in a kind of dead end and faces two reactions.
On the one hand, the organizations that promote the legitimization of the LGBTQ+ lifestyle rejoiced. The inclusion of LGBTQ+ activists among the Holy Year pilgrim groups and their solemn entry into St. Peter’s Basilica—the spiritual center of Catholicism—sent to the whole world the message that the Holy See recognizes the main objective of these organizations: the approval of homosexual activity and other sexual conduct outside of marriage. The world applauds Pope Leo XIV and the Holy See for this.
On the other hand, there are all those—Catholics, but also non-Catholics and people of other religions—who still uphold the validity of God’s commandments and take them seriously, and who are in a state of shock. All the faithful children of the Holy Church feel deeply humiliated. It is like a blush on the faces of the Church’s children. We feel ashamed before God.
An embarrassing silence is perceived in the Holy See, similar to the silence of a troubled conscience of one who knows he has done wrong.
Diane Montagna: This event occurred on the first Saturday of the month, the day when Our Lady of Fatima especially asked for reparation for offenses against her Immaculate Heart. How can the faithful remedy what happened?
Mons. Schneider: The situation is nothing less than a public humiliation of our Holy Mother Church before the shameful joy of the enemies of God’s commandments. We must make a collective act of reparation for the offense committed against the sanctity of God’s house and His commandments. We, the children of the Church—above all the Pope, and especially those clerics who allowed, supported, and even justified such an abomination—must make our own the words of the prophet Daniel: “To you, O Lord, belongs righteousness, but to us confusion of face… because we have sinned against you. To us, O Lord, confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against you” (Dan 9:7-8).
Diane Montagna: During the Great Jubilee of the year 2000, Rome hosted the first World Pride March (July 1–9, 2000). St. John Paul II publicly denounced that event, saying:
“In the name of the Church of Rome, I can only express my deep sadness at the affront to the Great Jubilee of the Year 2000 and the offense to the Christian values of a city so dear to the hearts of Catholics throughout the world. The Church cannot be silent about the truth, because to do so would fail in its fidelity to God the Creator and would not help to distinguish good from evil” (Angelus, July 9, 2000).
Mons. Schneider: In this sense, it suffices to read what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says, which, after noting that homosexual acts are contrary to the natural law, states: “The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill the will of God in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition” (n. 2358).
Diane Montagna: Excellency, what message do you wish to send to Pope Leo XIV?
Mons. Schneider: I would like to implore Pope Leo XIV to repeat, in substance, these words of St. John Paul II, thereby manifesting to the whole world the true humility of recognizing the Holy See’s guilt for the scandalous LGBTQ+ event in St. Peter’s Basilica. Humility is courage in the truth. If Leo XIV performs public acts of repentance and reparation, he will lose nothing; if he does not, he will lose something in the eyes of God, and only God matters.
From the heart, I wish that Pope Leo XIV receive the grace of God to have the courage to repair this act of abomination that has stained the sanctity of the Jubilee Year, making his own in all truth the words of St. Paul: “I have not shrunk from declaring to you the whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:26-27).
Diane Montagna: Excellency, do you want to add anything else?
Mons. Schneider: Pope Leo XIV is not the vicar of Francis, but the Vicar of Jesus Christ, who will hold him accountable for the defense of the truth. Harmony was not the goal of Christ, otherwise He would not have been crucified. And St. Augustine would have enjoyed a very harmonious life if he had not combated the errors of his time, also within the Church.
May our Holy Father, Pope Leo XIV, take seriously the words of Our Lord, spoken through St. Bridget of Sweden to one of his predecessors, Pope Gregory XI:
“Uproot, destroy, and extirpate all the vices of your court! Turn away from the counsel of the carnal and worldly, and humbly follow the spiritual counsel of my friends. Arise like a man and clothe yourself with strength! Begin to reform the Church that I bought with my own blood, so that it may be reformed and brought spiritually to its primitive state of holiness, for today more veneration is shown to a brothel than to my Holy Church. My son, listen to my counsel. If you obey me, I will mercifully receive you as a loving father. Walk courageously on the path of justice and you will prosper. Do not despise the one who loves you. If you obey, I will show you my mercy, I will bless you, I will clothe you and adorn you with the precious pontifical insignia of a holy pope. I will clothe you with myself in such a way that you will be in me and I in you, and you will be glorified in eternity” (Book of Revelations, Book IV, ch. 149).